Jesus fucking christ on a crack pipe! Talk about the low hanging fruit, what kind of half wit mouthbreather would come to a guy who has pretty much just spent the past couple of years motherfucking every aspect of the industry and expect anything other than " what are ya? Blind, retarded, or simply too damn lazy to make even the slightest effort"?

I know, sure as god made little yellow shortbus riders, that there are those out there, in public, reading you religiously who still don't get it. But WTF? Yeah, skippy you should go to law school, and after that go get your Bush quality MBA while your at it cuz, you are special, and hell who knows just how long you can avoid the pain of real life, and ya know that as long as you're are in school, well you don't have to start making those awful loan payments. By all means, go, you fucking Maverick and become just the kinda jagoff this blog has been ripping on for so long! God knows they'll read this column and assume it doesn't apply. Bravo PL, another strike, hey have you considered politics, I mean, man the stealing looks so fucking easy, just as long as you can get out and smile that winning smile and eat that stinking pile everyday, and no more time sheets, EVER AGAIN!

PL: I'm told I'm pretty enough for politics, but I think I might have some problems with skeletons in the closet...

As to all the reasons not to go to law school beyond those listed here, I think I've offered most in my book. I frankly don't know what else to offer on the topic.

It's amazing how many people still think like this. I had the chance to go to law school and decided against it. I just couldn't handle the thought of endlessly droning on and on about the proper placement of a particular verb or noun.

P.S. - Yes, yes I do know how hard it is to find that much mescaline...

PL: "Hard"? Goddamn near impossible!

I'm sending this to my sister, who will be graduating with her Poli Sci degree this spring. I thank you on her behalf, as she is considering law school.

PL: Glad to help. Tell her to pass it to others in similar situations.

You'll NEVER hear this stuff from law school administrators or career advisers. It's terrible the bullshit they feed to kids.

"You're young. You're debt free. You can afford to make a few mistakes trying out different careers. Cash those mulligans in now, while you can. The bad times will pass and if you keep looking, you'll find a path that fits. Don't kill your options before you even start the game."

Excellent advice mate. Love the article

PL: Just a simple truth people seem to miss when they're young and nervous.

Too true. I know the pain all too well. Think very long and very hard before going to law school. Ask many, many people about how they feel about the profession. If, after all that, you still want to do, then go (or have yourself committed).

PL: Couldn't agree more.

And if you do go, stay the fuck away from litigation. It is the deadest end of them all.

Ahh nice, Chapter 1 of the second book. Lots of truth here, my old firm has been firing people left and right over the past year.

PL: My favorite device is firms making people "non-equity" partners. Tantamount to saying, "We thought you smart enough to hire you, but we don't think you smart enough to spot the oxymoronic nature of this 'promotion.'"

Long time reader (love the book) but have never posted. I'm a third year finance major at the university of wisconsin and I'm from the washington d.c. area. i'm thinking as a finance major and with a law degree (assuming I do not go for the bar and don't care about class rank upon graduation) there are resonable jobs in a law firm finance department, business consultant company, or a random financial analyst job i could be offered. why not take it and delay real life for 3 more years?

PL: Because it's going to cost you $100k, three years of wages and the debt service is going to wipe out any gain accruing from the degree? You're thinking short term. If the notion of "waiting out" the job market informs a decision as huge as going to law school, then law school isn't for you.

Good analysis. What career types or majors do you think will do relatively well in the tanking economy, other than engineering and any kind of medicine? I guess you could just go into academia and become a professor, but that means almost a decade of living in a crappy house with crappy roommates and driving a 17+ year old Honda with shot suspension.

I hear rumors that inflation is going to go a little crazy, and you seem to know more than the junior econ students I otherwise can talk to. Do you think that having a little gold and silver around is a good idea?

PL: Finance will come back. All the stuff in the papers about this being the end of the finance industry is nonsense. Our society is neither capable of or willing to adjust to a period of prolonged austerity. It will take a few years, but new credit vehicles will emerge. We have no choice right now but to continue spending. I don't think an infrastructure boom, even coupled with a green tech revolution will be sufficient to bring us back.

There's a lot of money on the sidelines still waiting for the right time to jump in and starting snapping up bargains. And no, I'm not talking about the stock market here. I think as regulatory structures inhibit traditional lending we're going to see a new crop of smaller enterpreneurs bankrolling small scale private equity deals. It's just a question of waiting for the panic to pass and stabilization to determine what's a "bargain."

I think nursing facilities will be a great growth market going forward. MRI and PET scan facilities, medical equipment leasing will see growth (I recognize a lot of people would say the smart money's already there, so getting in now is late, but I'm not sure about that... I think there's still a shortage of capacity coming).

I'd love to say there was a future in microfinance as there is a huge market for it and it is a socially beneficial endeavor. Sadly, I don't think it's compatible with our culture.

As to the inflation thing, I don't know which way that's going to go, but if it follows oil prices as it seems to have done over the past year, and oil spikes again in 2009, yeah, you might see some crazy inflation. But you know there's no way to really guess as to what causes inflation, just post-hoc guesswork based on biased assessments looking to validate the economic epidemiologist's personal theories. I can't say whether you should or shouldn't buy gold.

Just bought your book and awaiting it's arrival. It should arrive just after all my papers are done, which is perfect because it will require my undivided attention and a bottle of whiskey. Love the site, even those of us not in law continue to enjoy it.

PL: Shit... You just reminded me. I was supposed to put up a post listing all the different music and drinks one should enjoy with the book. Thanks.

Where were you four years ago...

PL: Drinking vodka and Red Bull on my back porch, writing the first pieces of this website.

I am also a lawyer and couldn't agree more with Philalawyer. KNOW you want to be a lawyer before you agree to be on the hook for 100K in loans. And expect to work your ass off for nothing when you graduate, as this economy is not going to recover any time soon. Law school is NOT A good place to hide from the real world. IF that is what you want, I recommend your local homeless shelter....b.c it'd be far smarter to wait it out there...

PL: Nothing to add except to say, given the email you attached here, take a spin through this. Tell me if I'm right:

http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Hour-Amateurs-Decade-Profession/dp/0061349496/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226086666&sr=8-1

I am a third year law student. With that said, my total debt upon graduation will be roughly $40,000 (state school), I have a job waiting for me, I did take two years off between college and law school, one of those working full time in the small firm (and office) in which I currently work. I have sacrificed grades in school to work and occasionally go out and get faced, and at all times, socialize with those in the profession of law.

Most importantly, I have been referred to, at various times in my life as "an asshole", "despicable", "a degenerate", "a bad person", and my favorite, a former roommate, who recently graduated from law school himself, said that I had been "tragically born without a soul." Before people commit to three years of law school (which sucks) and then to entering the profession, ask yourself: do you want to be on the other side of the table from me as your primary means of making money? In all honesty, that's what I asked myself, and I said yes.

PL: As a "garbageman" who handled cases for a lot of clients who really didn't have many defenses at one point in my career, I know what you mean.

Do not get callous. Never think what you're doing is okay, that it's just business to fuck people over and milk the system. I was quite immoral, as I think all decent advocates have to be (you have to rep the guilty and those who really don't have legitimate claims to keep up cash flow in litigation, that's just a fact). But I never became amoral. That's where I think the problems start.

I mean, let's face it. To be a successful lawyer (or really a successful anything in this world), you have to do some bad shit. Don't forget it's bad, and that if you get the chance to do something else, you will.

Nobody can be despicable at your age.

The problem with your warnings, is that once someone has their mind set on law school, they usually do not reconsider.

This is their flawed reasoning -> 100% of law students in their first semester think that they are going to be in the top 10% and this is their first step towards legal stardom. This of course makes sense because they are too exceptional not to be the exception, right? WRONG. So what inevitably happens is the vast majority of law students find themselves on the outside looking in on former possiblity. While they started out with a clean slate, they are now forever tarnished because their first year grades are not quite up to snuff - despite how hard they may have worked.

Law school is a gamble (in terms of having the career prospects at the end that you think you want). And it is a gamble that is not fair - your fate entirely depends on professors subjective evaluation of your abilities. Reasonable minds do differ. Anyone considering needs to respect this.

If you are dead set on going to law school despite EVERYTHING said, consider getting a scholarship to hedge your bets/debts. Schools give away a ton of money. Better to go to a slightly lesser school and get money - unless you have the chance to go to a top-12 school. And even still - scholarship might be worth it.

Personally, I don't love law school. But I was/am of the mindset that I HAD to have the degree. Some of the people drive me nuts - but since 1L I've learned to only talk to the people who make me happy and ignore the rest. I went to a school where I get to have the majority of my tuition subsidized and I am enjoying learning "how the world works." Knowing I wont be facing 100K-plus debt makes me happy and alleviates a lot of the stress. I don't mean to boast, simply trying to make the point that you can make law school work for you. Just recognize the risk you are taking.

PL: You are one of a very small fraternity of rational thinkers. Congrats on that. It is quite rare, as you note.

In fact, rational thinking is more rare than even I considered. I think more people want to believe their own narratives, and want only to be reinforced, rather than questioned. A couple people have told me that when they suggested my book to people planning on attending law school, many of those people bristled and didn't want to read it.

I understand not wanting to read a book if you aren't interested in the subject. But avoiding a book because it questions your thinking? That's madness. I specifically seek out entertainment that questions my views. I love reading people who disagree with me. How else can a person learn?

Why all this ink in reply to your comment? Because I don't think your criticism is limited to law students. I think this entire country is living narratives disconnected from reality. We're trained to, as you note, feel exceptional. We think our views are innately brilliant because of who we we've been trained to think we are.

It's all a fucking lie.

I can write a little bit and craft some interesting insights here and there, but I'm aware that I am limited. By dint of my placement in the economy I will always have to struggle to break out of a "middle-mindedness" that defaults when challenged to all the supposed truths of our shared American Myth. I look back at all the years I worked my ass off becoming a decent lawyer and realize what a fool I was... That any truly bright person in those circumstances would have done less work and spent more of his time networking to get clients... He'd have taken that risk and won or lost and if he lost he'd have moved on to the next thing.

I forgot that labor is known as labor for a reason. It's not part of our "narrative" to think like that.

I really like what Joe had to say. PL's comments reminded me of Palahniuk and that speech Brad Pitt makes in Fight Club about everyone being brainwashed to think they're going to be rockstars...good stuff.

I'm in the position described above (senior in college)and I like it. I love having the luxury of making this decision. I'm not worried about the money, struggling doesn't bother me. I'm not worried about the assholes, because people are generally fairly easy to handle if you don't give a damn.

No, the only thing I am worried about is am I going to be happy doing what I do? Am I going to be satisfied? And it's tough, but it is a question only I can answer.

I've read this sight, and your confidence with language is awesome. It keeps me coming back.

For me at least, it's tragic, but I am going to need a larger taste of lawyering before I can turn it down.

Now if you'll excuse me, it's Friday and my roommates are at least three ahead.

Please keep posting. Book deals are nice, but I'm in it for the episodes.

Nick

PL: The book's worth the money. Trust me.

So for those of us 3Ls who have realized that the law isn't for us, what would you suggest? Is this degree useful if you don't want to practice (especially if you don't want to bother with the bar)?

PL: Go into transactional work. You can jump out of law and into any number of businesses with that skill set and employers won't be leery of hiring you.

DO NOT GO INTO LITIGATION. Litigation is not a fungible skill. It is a dead end and though no one will say it out loud, people are a bit uneasy about having litigators around. Non-lawyers can't figure out why you'd want to quit because they think litigators are high earners and HR people view you as a litigation nightmare down the road if they should every have to lay you off. That and the skill-set is narrow and not of much use outside, well, litigation.

If you must do litigation, do employment work. That gives you the best chance of getting an in-house job later.

how deep or systemic do you think that notion is? It seems to be everywhere,i reckon most of the proponents of trickle down-econ have that mindset, middle managers with the pretension of being exceptional.(This isn't an endorsement of taxes/new deal policies, but its hard to think that joe the plumber is being stopped from achieving the American dream by just taxes alone.) I don't mean to be so overtly political but is there the same delusion behind the proponents of welfare state policies?

Theres a great article from a ways back comparing the economic status of woodchucks (rednecks) and suburbanites in Putnam county, NY. the author concluded that woodchucks were actually better off in terms of material wealth, and more likely to survive a financial crisis than their Keynesian credit dependent neighbors. also the rednecks didn't have to wait till 5 to drink.

PL: Consider that we live in a nation where I'd say 50% of people agree with Zell Miller's embarrassing statement that "God is not indifferent to the United States." We've been raised to think we can do anything and on some levels, it's true. I believe an ambitious American can do quite a lot. Problem is, there are a lot of ambitious Americans and there's only so much revenue creating activity to be undertaken. Americans might to do well to consider moving abroad more frequently.

I'm laughing my ass off over here, because I think some of the advice applies to other career fields as well. I currently teach part-time to Communications students and I want to scream at them don't do it-- particularly the film students. I want to yell you aren't going to be the next Steven Spielberg, hell you'll be lucky if you can pay your bills. And someone should have given them that advice before the economy even started to tank!

PL: Well, at least in that case the kids are pursuing a dream. And maybe they'll do something wonderful down the road. Perhaps the next Orson Welles is sitting in one of those classes. Probably not, but who knows? Those kids, as deluded as your rightly characterize them, are trying to make it in something they love. Law school isn't striking out at something you love. It's a cheap hedge - grabbing a ticket to the world's biggest license leveraging scheme. Film school is madness for most, but at least they care about what they're chasing. For 70% of students in it, law school is a default sluice-way to what they think is a decent check.

Page,

Good stuff. Obviously I'm not a lawyer, but generally speaking I'm not a fan of you guys from my desk job days. I find it really interesting the comments you invoke from other lawyers or law students.

PL: I could write about how fucked this industry is until my book became a best-seller and they put me on Oprah and you know what? Kids would still send me emails saying, "But why not law school?" It's wild... The notion that law is some storied, glorious path to respect and success is so engrained in our culture.

In Pennsylvania there are these backwoods counties where you'd sometimes have to do a hearing or argument... In these places, other lawyers and court employees would call you "Attorney So and So." Used to blow my mind, the deference these people paid to this "license." When they'd call me that I'd reply by saying "Hey, no need to insult me this early in the morning." Some would think it was funny. Others would get this look of confusion on their faces. I'd laugh and say, "Call me 'Mr. So and so." They'd still call me "Attorney So and So."

The sooner we stop worshiping advocates, the better our society. That anyone should feel the need to pay me or any other lawyer deference is a sign of just how completely fucked in the head most of this country is.

Once again, sage advice. I stumbled into regulatory law in DC as a paralegal and went to law school at night with a job lined up already at a decent firm. This happened because I waited and did not rush headlong into law school. I will NEVER hire a seven and out (a term I coined for those who rush through undergrad and law school w/o so much as a break), I do not care if you were law review at Yale.

What Philly is saying is so true, the party is nearly over. The selfish, self-important boomers have gorged themselves at the feast with ever increasing billables and escalating billing rates. The clients cannot take it anymore. Other than the banks and bet the company cases, the work is staying in-house where mediocrity is now accepted. Even my regulatory clients who pass legal fees through rate base to their customers are cutting back.

I do not know what is next for law firms, fixed price bidding, contracts with escalators, a piece of the deal in transactions, but one thing is clear, you will not get rich in law and the chances of you being happy are even slimmer.

Do something to make the world a better place, law is not it.

PL: I have zilch to add to this except to note that my friends in house - the ones who hire lawyers - echo your comments exactly.

Party's over. Even with the Democrats in office.

Excellently done once again PL. As a second year law student at a T2 school, I am currently in the phase of legal education where I get to line up weekly for a repeated series of blows to the groin from employers. My once strong pride has been ground down to an ego stump, and in about a month and a half, I will will finally be molded to the point where I am willing to grovel at the door of any personal injury firm in the state that might allow me to spend next summer writing motions for slip and fall cases.

I left a successful career to be a lawyer, I want to be a lawyer, I enjoy studying the law, and I cannot even get a foot in the door. Apparently, the bunch of gold plated fucks who wield all of the power in this industry have decided that a 23 year old, who has never seen daylight outside of a classroom, is a more favorable candidate than me because he faired better on a 3 hour torts final. Some of the brightest people I have come across in law school find themselves similarly struggling and trying to find that break, while the guy with the working intellect and social grace of a George Bush bobble-head doll tries to figure out which firm to reject.

The system that defines the industry is broken. Streams of talented, energetic people, who will make excellent professionals, are churned out and rejected. A select few neurotic and socially devoid characters are handed the silver platter. Rather than cultivating organizations full of many competent professionals and paying them well, "big law" has chosen an organization full of people whose delicate psychological profiles can only tolerate obscene pay in exchange for a soul crushing commitment. Where their egos are stroked, the clients pay.

This is the market opportunity that needs to be seized in an economy like this. Gather up the bright, motivated recent grads that big law forgot, pay them a great wage for good work, and undercut the shit out of the gold plated intellectuals that think they are worth 160k without one drop of substantive experience. While the big law partners try to pick out which color marble to use on their new lobby, a firm using this business model could be systematically pulling the rug out from under them and bringing a once respectable profession back under the control of reason. It's a pipe dream, but if anyone wants to seize that kind of opportunity, I've still got my summer free...

PL: Well, in fairness, you can't blame the industry for selecting as it does. Think about how little time firms have to vet candidates and consider what they're looking for. Do they really want the most motivated, well-rounded person? Or do they want the person who has demonstrated a high facility with and tolerance for drudgework?

Too much ambition and well-roundedness can actually be a problem. You can't hold onto those people at a decent cost because, by definition, they're movers. They chase new opportunities and aren't really part of the hierarchy. There's a certain type of "brilliance" firms seek and it might not be the type you think it is.

Don't lose faith. After a few years out, if you know what you're doing, nobody you'd care about cares about your 1L grades or any of that nonsense.

In this economy, if you can bring business into the door of any firm, you can be functionally retarded and get yourself hired. My advice? Don't work hard to get good at it like I did. Do a decent enough job not to get fired and bust your ass like a mad man trying to find clients to bring into the firm. If you know anything about finance, start looking at restructuring smaller debts. There are loads of companies in need of workouts right now who can't afford to work at huge shops. You could create a nice, lucrative business in that at a small shop with little overhead, minimal annoyance (working out debts is lot more business negotiation than esoteric legal bullshit) and a fungible skill set that will allow you to jump into business when the economy rebounds and your market starts to dry up.

I'm a 1L at georgetown who came right out of college into law school. BUT, the only job that I want (and have ever wanted) is to be a county prosecutor. Will I have loans and a low salary? Yes, but that is what public interest loan forgiveness programs are for. So, am I crazy too, or actually having a goal that requires a law degree make this alright?

PL: You're not the person this article was aimed at. But I still don't agree with your decision to run right into law school.

Nobody ought to know exactly what he wants to be from childhood. There are so many other things to experience.

So you would also probably disagree with my decision to get married right out of undergrad too I take it since no one knows what type of person they should marry at 22?

The way I see it, I want to have 3-5 kids and get started on that soon. The sooner I'm done with school the sooner that can start.

I think the problem with many people today isn't that they take on too much too early but that they delay decisions forever. You don't wait until you are mature enough before getting married and having kids, instead those events cause one to become mature.

In the same way you talk about people at the end of their lives saying they wish that they worked less I think that even if they avoided that problem many would say they wish they had more time to spend with their children and grandchildren rather than gone off and "experienced" life and "found out who they were" and leave the one or two kids they only started having after 35 before their grandkids are old enough to even talk to them.

In my mind, saying that life is about how much you can experience is just another form of consumerism and decadence.

PL: Are you asking me questions or are you looking for reinforcement for your narrative (how you want and intend things to work out for you)?

Rigidity is never good policy. In all the currencies one can have in the life (richness of experience; skills; knowledge of different vocations; understanding of one's broader capabilities; travel) it is narrowing.

Do your thing, but always remember - life isn't linear. She might leave you. You might get sick. She might get sick. One of your kids might get sick. Plans are nice, but you can't schedule out life with any type of rigidity, and the best opportunities often come randomly, and go to the people who are the most flexible. You limit yourself early and you don't have any Plan B if Plan A fails. You also might miss a chance at doing something incredibly rewarding you don't even know about yet.

Decadence? That's a moral suggestion. My point's rational.

As to the general idea that you know exactly what you should do at your age, maybe you do. Maybe you don't. I know I didn't, and I know most of my friends, successes and failures, didn't. And I happen to think it's limiting.

But that's just my opinion.

PL,

Coming from a family where going to college is a huge accomplishment, being relatively intelligent while growing up created lifelong expectations of me becoming a lawyer. I took some Pre Law classes and even took a summer internship doing legal work. I couldn't stomach the idea of devoting my life to it. Thankfully, I have been able to ignore most of the advice people have given me and am a step away from taking a 2 year gig teaching in inner city New Orleans. I never would have pictured myself in this situation and couldn't be more excited. Your writing definitely offered a side of the argument nobody else was willing to take, and was able to reinforce a lot of the thoughts I had running in my head. Thanks.

Also, since I've purchased your book, Amazon has been recommending Posner's "How Judges Think" non stop. You sick bastard.

PL: I can imagine that's going to be a tough gig, but if you can make some headway, it'll be incredibly gratifying.

And even if it doesn't, you have a built in killer vacation every Spring...

Seriously, you've got twice the balls I had at your age. All the best of luck with it.

Amazon is evil with that shit. I get emails offering me "One L" over and over again.

As a service to anyone so desperate for guidance that they are reading the comments section of this article, I am going to respectfully disagree with several parts of it. There is a small slice of the populous (maybe 10%?) that law school is by leaps and bounds the best choice when compared with the alternatives. This 10% slice will make more money and have a better quality of life as a lawyer than they would had they chosen the other available paths.

I went to a large state school for undergrad where I spent most of my time being an athlete and a poorly functioning alcoholic. I got mediocre grades at a mediocre business school and otherwise did nothing to build any kind of a compelling resume. As a senior, my job offers were... 1) sales at a tool company for 55k/yr, 2) work for a property management company that I had worked with over the summer for 40K/year, 3) work in "marketing" for IBM for the going rate for mediocre B-School students, 55K/yr, 4) move to Mexico and become a scuba instructor with my friend for 10K/yr. 1-3 are cubicle farm jobs. If you think being a lawyer chokes your soul, please work in a cubicle for 55K/yr. It's not a question of good job v. shitty job, it is a question of shitty job v. shittier job.

Mexico was the only option worth serious consideration, I gave my parents another 10 years before they needed some serious financial help. You can't abandon the people who took out a third mortgage on their house to get you through college.

Then there was law school. I am touched by God when it comes to standardized tests. I have scored near perfect on every one I have ever taken, from the SAT to eventually the LSAT. A top score on the LSAT and a decent recommendation from a few professors can get you into an ivy league law school or a scholarship at a top 20. I took the scholarship and kept the debt down. I spent 9 months actually studying and got good grades. Law school was still fun. I got lots of job offers, all over 120K after the investment of one year and a few thousand dollars in laons. Four years out, I am making 200K.

My job sucks, and it will never get better. But for God's sake, consider the alternatives. If you can't move to Mexico, you are going to move to some entry level cubicle job in "marketing" or "operations" or "sales". I have had these jobs. My friends have these jobs. My dad had these jobs. They are 1000% worse than being a lawyer. These people work their their whole lives for 85K, a windowless office, and access to a secretary pool. They have a dress code and are reprimanded if they do not show up at work at 9 AM, M-F. They have to submit for vacation time three months in advance. Their internet use is monitored. My job sucks, but at least I started with an office, a window, and a secretary. I wrote this from work and I can leave right now and no one would know. In the aggregate I work more than any two of my friends combined, but its a small price to pay to not have their jobs.

So my point is, if you have terrible job prospects coming out of undergrad, can't move to Mexico, and there is some reason, LSAT or otherwise, you can get into a top tier law school and do well there, then law school may very well beat your alternatives.

That being said, don't go into debt to go to a poorly ranked law school unless there is some reason you KNOW you are going to graduate in the top 5%. Your job prospects won't be that much better than they are now and you will have loans.

PL: A totally fair and well-reasoned assessment. But the flip side to it is that not every sales or non-law related job is hell. One of my chief issues with law is that I don't see a rosy future in the field. The margins are getting squeezed horribly and it's a piecemeal business model.

I remember someone telling me as a kid, "If the business isn't working for you when you're not there it isn't a smart business to be in." I didn't see myself building toward anything. But then, my issues were deeper. I've always gambled, so I just kept jumping from practice area to practice area. The book was, in a strange sense, a somewhat predictable thing. It's hard as hell to stay in an office when you have one of those rotten minds that soaks up everything around you and sees it as nothing but a pointless and less and less lucrative merry-go-round of process for process' sake.

I think you're lucky. Coming from a tough spot to the law gives one a different perspective. I had buddies in sales and finance making crazy money around me and working less, or at least doing more exciting work. Sales is a scary job because of the lack of barrier to entry, but if you got into the right thing, man, you could make some nice cash quick. I know a few people who would have been all but "done" around 40 if things held up. Even in this economy.

Of course, I guess it all depends on how much $$$ you need to be "done."

On the whole, I agree with the comments that you and everyone else made here regarding going to law school. I had no idea what I REALLY wanted to do - that is why I got completely housed the night before I took the LSAT the first time (and did remarkably bad). I took a couple of years off, thought about it a lot and decided that I did want to go to law school. I've been practicing for 6 years in transactional, and even though it is insanely slow right now, I am happy with that decision. I have no delusions about being rich, but I know that I will be able to (assuming the economy turns around) put my kids through college if they choose to go, and retire comfortably some day.

The other thing that you and others haven't pointed out is that you HAVE to have a book in order to be a successful lawyer. That is the only thing that will get you close to having any job security. I am fortunate enough to have a great book and thus have the ability to tell my firm to screw off and take my clients with me if they piss me off (already did it earlier this year when the ins. def. firm I was trying to build a practice group in screwed me for having great revenue but less than 2100 hours last year). If you want to go to law school, start making connections NOW so that you have contacts to call on when you get into practice. Keep in touch with your entry-level and MBA friends - they will be in management and hiring legal services at about the time that you are in book-building mode and will be gold for you.

Having said all of this, I think the larger problem with too many people going to law school for the wrong reasons goes all the way back to high school, when counselors tell you to study something in college that you enjoy. They don't tell you to study something that will get you a job. I graduated with degrees in history and poli sci. I loved those fields and am glad that I studied them, but they qualified me to - you guessed it - continue my education. After taking a couple of years off (amazing what that perspective does for you) I had the choice between getting a PhD in one of those fields (10 more years) or a JD (4 years - I went at night). I chose law because I could get done quicker and it was something I wanted to do just as much as academia. The best advice I can give to anyone is, no matter your major, take some accounting, finance and other business courses, or better yet, get a business minor. That way, when you get out of college, you have a somewhat more marketable degree than history or political science, or like my wife, foreign language (the folks at the "Career Services" office literally laughed at her when she told them her major).

Keep up the great work PL. Your writing makes people think and that is something that not enough people do these days - they just follow the piper off the cliff because its what they think they should do. By the way, be sure to let us all know when/if you might make it to the mid west for a signing. I know a great bar in town that you'd love - first round on me!

PL: If you don't have a head for math in this country, you'd better have a damn lucrative network. It's just that simple.

Dear PL,

I just stumbled on this site randomly at my fairly unfulfilling legal job. I'm not going to go into details about what it is I do, but suffice to say I saw a bit of what you're talking about erly on in law school and directed my career path in a sort of compromise. To say I'm happy with my job now would be a bit of a stretch, but I take some satisfaction in knowing I worked the system enough to produce some sort of small victory for myself.

The thing is, I can't say I ended up in my current situation out of any real sense of self-awareness. I just sensed early on in law school that something was severely wrong with the choices I'd made and even if I couldn't articulate it, it was going to have real consequences for me if I took the bait.

Reading your thoughts, though, has helped me articulate the problem a bit better. The law is filled with douchebags. To the brim. Ours is a seductive profession in that while it certainly attracts its share of scum, that scum is dressed up in Armani suits and Rolexes and they set the pace for the rest of us.

Is there anything quite so absurd as grown people evaluating the competency and quality of character of their peers based on whether they were on the law review editorial board in school 30 years ago? Does anybody care if I fucking lettered in high school track? The end result of this pettiness and juvenile sniping is a career path filled with people who throw up their hands at the question of why the rest of the world hates us, even if we are not ourselves horrible,
because we're so wrapped up the cognitive dissonance of being regular dudes in a career long since bought and paid for by arrested development human garbage that we've lost the ability to relate to human beings who aren't complete fucking cartoon characters.

And I did, too. My time in law school and afterwards was punctuated with a lot of small, personal losses followed by endless wondering on what the fuck happened to me. I realize now that I was on the brink, even after I'd made the decisions that put me in the position I am now. I was a douchebag, and my douchebaggery came from insecurity borne from the idea that I couldn't handle playing ball with Biglaw, not that Biglaw itself was an environment chiseled from the forms of high-functioning autistics.

So, thanks for doing this. It may be cold comfort, but I hope you'll be happy to hear some hard-earned money from the establishment will find its way to your pockets in the form of me buying your book.

Take care.

PL: Thanks. It's stuff like this that reminds me these things need to be said... The pricks deserve to be savaged, lampooned for what they are.

And aren't.

As you read the book, you'll come across a term, "angry insignificant." I stayed up many a night trying to craft a simple description of the type you describe, in all his lurid, embarrassing detail. That was the best description I could summon.

But always remember... These pricks don't have to control the industry. It's only because decent people like us let it happen or buy into it that these assholes have ruined the career. It's not a terminal condition.

Looks like the NY times agrees with you:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/12/business/12law.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&em

PL: Tip of the iceberg, I'm afraid.

http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/12/law-firms-feel-strain-of-layoffs-and-cutbacks/?scp=2&sq=lawyers&st=cse

PL: Somebody beat you on this one...

PL, sometimes I wish you took the Hunter S. Thompson sort of attitude: "I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs, and insanity for everyone, but it works for me." What I mean is that reading you, it seems ludicrous that anybody would go into practicing law, should they not want to become insane and/or the product of a rather dreadful, soul-crushing system.

But your current career would not be so rich without having gone through law school, worked as a lawyer, and gained certain experiences, no? I don't expect you to say something like "practice law, it's a trip!" And I don't think you're being a hypocrite by espousing your anti-law-school philosophy, but I can't help wonder where you'd be without those experiences.

PL: I wouldn't have met my wife. I'll always owe that to law. Had I not been in law, I'd have never gone to Philly. Had I not gone to Philly, I'd have never met her.

No. She's not a lawyer.

But as to the rest, if I cause some kid to think about his decisions on grad school before he runs out and puts himself in a financial hole, how's that bad?

I have never and will never say that law is a universally terrible career no one should get into. I have advocated that people approach law or any other career or any other decision in their life with their eyes wide open.

I'm just telling those who ask to think for themselves. It only seems negative because to do so, one has to savage the comfortable myths and narratives people want to buy into.

There's Reality in this country and then there's What Americans Like to Hear. Which do you think has put our economy where it is right now?

As for law being a career that is good in both good times and bad:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/12/business/law.php

PL: The sons of bitches are plagiarizing me! The paragraph on emerging fee structures looks like it was lifted straight from my piece.

You bastards!

Isn't this the truth? Going to law school generally is an alternative to other opportunities college grads have. I say take the 100K and go to Europe!

PL: So do I. The exchange rate's getting better every day.

In regards to your previous comment....What? The dollar has been on a massive roll?

Now that that's out of the way, I am a junior in econ right now and debating law school. I have family in the industry and have always heard that I would fit right in in the legal profession. As of right now I am unsure about my major and am thinking of switching, but after doing some reading on this site I see that maybe I will want to have those quantitative skills, I just don't like the seemingly endless semesters of calculus. Do you think undergrad matters that much once you decide to become a lawyer? I have absolutely no career direction right now. I just think it's a good fit for me because I like critique and arguing, and even if I choose not to practice law isn't it true that you can get jobs in investment banking or the like with a JD? Or should one rather go to business school? Also, I don't see how you can be so negative on litigation. I understand it doesn't have a transferable skill set, but a family friend who is a product liability litigator just bought a $6M home. Is that type of success extremely rare? Is most of it bitch work?

PL: No, you cannot get an Ibanking job simply because you have a law degree. First you have to get lucky enough to get a job in a related industry and then it's a battle against every other lawyer with similar qualifications who desperately wants to get away from the billable hour mill and into something more lucrative.

Today I guess it would be private equity since, well, which Ibank is hiring right now?

You want to go into finance? Get a degree in finance from your undergrad institution.

Book finally arrived on Saturday (that only took three weeks-how the hell did they send it? carrier pigeon?!) and I read it cover to cover as I was on the beach (not Secret beach but close enough with all the damn fat Europeans in Speedos-even their little boy! WTF? Why is that ok to wear? Gross). Let me just say that yes, the book did cement how grateful I am that I chose NOT to go to law school; not that my eventual career choice was/is much better.
I worked in a law library during my first year and half of college and so many of the people you describe in your book are the same pompous ass pricks I dealt with daily (No, I am not stupid and only work in a library, I go to school full time and work here to make some money while deciding whether or not to attend this law school. No, I will not argue/debate anything with you-I am an 18yr old kid trying to put books away for you idiots and you think you are so smart, why do you come here and not know how to use a goddamn computer to find what you are looking for, do you have any clue how many other people are looking for that as well? No, I don't care if you are going to be a lawyer-I still will not fuck you in the library 6th floor stacks, last study carrel by the back corner. Asshole. And no, I don't care if you can get me into this school because you have been a prof here forever and are on whatever committee-I have no reason to come to your office; I work in the library and will not deliver any books to you and if you touch my hair one more time-you will lose an eye! The security guard will vouch for me because guess what? Like all the fuckheads here-he wants to sleep with me too but he is the only one decent enough to have asked me anything about me and if I wanted to hang out! And you...I am tired of seeing you come in here acting like you are some big shot lawyer and bringing those whores here so you can tell your wife that you had to go to the library instead of admitting you are fucking some cheap admin looking for her 'Mrs' degree-you are gross and I hate that I might touch something you touched. Ish) First year students were the worst with attitude. By third year, I think they had been put in their place once or twice and then they regress when they get their first job. Needless to say, my experience WORKING in a law school library was somewhat off putting so I cannot for the life of me figure out how you actually attended school, worked with those types and remained "normal". Anyway, I thoroughly enjoyed the book and actually laughed out loud while reading it because it did bring back funny memories. Keep up the good work and I will keep shelling out the dough to get more.
Wishing you and your family-success, happiness and plenty of Aloha.

PL: How I remained "normal"? Quietly, secretly, I always viewed the litigation process and the "business" around it as the farce it is.

The Speedo should be outlawed for all but competitive swimming events, diving and water polo. If you can't see your dick when you look down, you shouldn't be on the beach at all.

My best to you, and thank you for buying the book. And reminding of how much fun that island was.

Napolean once said "space I can recover...time? never."

Everyone seems to be overlooking the great advantage to taking out a 100k loan to spend 3 years in law school: time.

Time to strategize. Time to reassess the market and become specialized in something. Time to learn new skills, maybe a new language. Time to get clients and network. Time that you may have pissed away in college.

The three years you "buy" are actually more valuable than anything you will learn, or the degree you will attain.

I will make the 100k back. Having three more years in the foxhole of academia to work to upgrade my personal market value? Priceless as they say.

But this is key: do not think that success in law school automatically translates to success in the real world. I don't worry about grades or making law review because my success is not dependent on that. I already know what I want to do and nothing is going to stop me.

PL might say that I am one of these magical thinking positivists. But I see myself more like a solider in a foxhole. Plus, law school is an investment in time more than anything else. What you do with that time will determine whether or not you can recover the space of the loans.

PL: I'm not sure I fully understand your position as it seems a bit vague, but it sounds like you have a non-traditional plan well thought out. All I can say is, I wish you the best. And be prepared to shift gears if a unique opportunity outside your plan should present itself.

Hey, here is the link to my review for your book:

http://media.www.torchonline.com/media/storage/paper952/news/2008/11/19/Features/Torch.Reads-3552179.shtml?reffeature=popuarstoriestab#cp_article_tools

Hope you like it and I've already had two people tell me they're going to go out and pick up a copy!

PL: That's a fantastic review. Thank you.

In response to the previous post regarding buying "time" with 100k for a law degree - I do not know anyone in law school with "clients" except for the kid who got yanked out of class a few years ago as part of a narcotics investigation for his role in a massive marijuana trafficking scheme. No joke, an all star criminal defense attorney who is an alumnus of the school and an adjunct faculty member did volunteer to defend him. Still, the kid clearly had "clients."

Well, that instance, and the students who volunteer to do various forms of legal aid - which is highly admirable. In my opinion, anyone fortunate enough to be blessed with this level of education should give something back to those less fortunate. Still, neither of these "clients" seem to be what you are talking about.

Would love to hear more about your "plan" though.

PL: Sounds like he's keeping that secret. Hope it works for him.

Hello PL I'm currently getting a grad degree in international relations in Europe prior to living and working in lots of Eastern European and Latin American countries and speak a few languages... i deferred admission to a few law schools but the only reason i want to go to law school is to work abroad in E. Europe... do you think I'm barking up the wrong tree? Much thanks for any input...

PL: Why would you need a law degree to work in E. Europe? What would that add to your attractiveness?

PL,

How do you think law schools fits with those aspiring towards a political career? I am specifically interested in elected positions, such as the House of Representatives.

PL: Why not go straight into a government job? Work on the Hill or something. Why take on the debt?

I read ALOT of your site, and I've read some of the book. I am a 3L going to graduate soon, probably around $50K in debt, tops. I enjoyed a scholarship the first year, I've had a partial scholarship the second year, and law school has already given me two jobs in the field. It's not a great school, and our nationwide rank is terrible, but I've been remarkably lucky in some aspects. I also got to go to France to study abroad.
I don't doubt anything you say on your site, if anything, I see you as an informal mentor of sorts, because I'm heading down the path to the bar exam. But I did struggle quite a bit in between college and law school. And there really, really wasn't much for me out there.
I don't LOVE law all the time, but I do like it when I've had work, just that basic purpose of getting up to go to do something in the morning, as opposed to nothing, and to make money in a way that doesn't involve manual labor.
And who says there aren't interesting areas of the law, or areas of the law that u can get into, really your technique down over the years, and start building a client databse? There are some, if you look.
I think whats true of lawyers is true of anyone really. Just getting up, working, and making money. What else is there? Law, like accounting, or finance, or whatever, is a road people take to accomplish those two things. And often BECAUSE things weren't working out with trying to survive on a bachelors degree or on a shit job.

PL: You struggled at something else, right? So to you, it was a default career, and you can live with it.

But you tried something else first.

Keep in mind the target audience of this piece.

1L here, straight from undergrad with finance/accounting, now at a large state school. Too late to jump ship now without anything to fall back on.

My strategy has always been to put in an amount of work that I feel proud of, and make sure I take the time to network and maintain relationships with friends.

If the legal market is as bad as you predict, then maybe I can jump into a corporate job at a future point in time through my network.

Thanks for keeping my worldview in check though.

PL: The network's everything. What you know = 25%. Who you know = 75%.

The other thing... Do something your friends do. Most of mine work in finance. Being a general litigator didn't put me in exactly the best position to leverage any relationships there.

Just as well, I guess. Saved them having to gingerly explain:

"I really can't recommend you to anyone."

"Why?"

"I know you."

Hits home with me. I graduated from a top 20 school this year, and have my first interview in literally months this week at a small firm that does almost exclusively litigation. The notion that things are going to suck has been ingrained in me for a long time. However, I've tried to get transactional work as you suggest (as that's where the bulk of my interest, experience, and education lies) but it's bloody damn near *impossible* to do that in this economy, and I have the feeling things are just gonna get tons worse. I really can't stand litigation, but right now I'd just feel fortunate to have a job to put food on the table. Any input?

PL: In a desperate market, you're stuck with what you get. And once branded a litigator, it's hard to shift to the other side. However, I have seen it done in small firms. So don't despair over that. Just keep your eyes open and jump at the first chance you get to make the shift. Try to inject yourself into as many business disputes as you can.

Stay away from cases involving negligence or products liability or anything not related to commercial issues. That's "pure" litigation work, and if you can't stand litigation, that's the last place you want to be.

Nice post. I took the law school plunge three years ago, and I loved school, although I'm not sure about my career options. Instead of going to the best school I got into, I took a full ride at a tier two school. I graduated really high in my class, but still struck out at OCI and just graduated without a job.

My question is whether you think I should try to grind it out in small firms and work my way up, or whether to just consider another career altogether. I graduated college with a math degree, but got bad grades (3.0 gpa), and worked as a paralegel for 1 year after college. I'm thinking about accounting firms because I took and enjoyed some tax classes in law school. Any other suggestions? Also, is tax law better or worse than litigation?

PL: I know a handful of tax lawyers and they seem happier and more normal than litigators. But that's just anecdotal. Your mileage may vary.

Accounting's not going anywhere as a career. Hard to get rich unless you develop a huge book of business, but the people I know working for the big business consulting firms don't have the horrible billable demands lawyers do.

I graduated in May and make $160k at my firm. I don't see how I'd be making more if I hadn't gone to law school. But only go to law school if you get into a top one (ie top 10 to top 15). Be prepared to work very hard there. Otherwise, I agree that you should not go.

Also blog guy, I don't think you did a good job showing your work regarding commercial litigation. Exactly WHY will biglaw litigators' fees be pushed to the level of ID lawyers? I worked for a federal judge, and let me tell you, I saw a HUGE difference in the quality of the briefs submitted by lawyers. The differences in quality definitely affected how the case was decided because in the US system the lawyers have so much responsibility for preparing the case. If a lot is at stake in a case, companies would be advised to pay for good lawyers. The top people in the field will more likely than not always make good money.

And those non-equity partners you described? In biglaw they still make around 300k, give or take, depending on your firm. That's not as good as being an equity partner making a million or two a year, but it's still more than most people make.

PL: This isn't a brief. It's a riff on the internet. Hence, you have to distill the endless angles people will apply to broad, general points.

And assume the readers will connect the dots.

If they don't, selah...

"PL: This isn't a brief. It's a riff on the internet. Hence, you have to distill the endless angles people will apply to broad, general points."

Oh, well in that case I'll just take on faith that all commercial litigators will one day have their pay reduced to ID pay levels and walk away from my six figure job.

Readers, listen, if you get into a top 10 to top 15 school, you should strongly consider going. You'll have to evaluate for yourself your future debt load, how hard you're willing to work, what % of the class goes to biglaw at that particular school, and your alternatives. By all means though don't just listen to this guy and decide it's a bad idea. No desrespect blog guy, a lot of your advice was good, but law is still a good option for the select few; particularly those who get into prestigious schools.

PL: I didn't say it wasn't. I cited market forces that are going to make the career less lucrative for everyone, including the most "prestigiously" pedigreed practitioners out there. For the broad audience targeted, you've merely fleshed out an under-emphasized point of my argument.

The value of exceptional litigation preparation may in some break-the-business cases support a firm's demand for spectacular fees. However, generally, it's not that unique a skill, and it doesn't approach overcoming sharp balance-sheet pressures on purchasers of legal services. You can be Clarence Darrow, but if the bean counter at ACME Monster Co. doesn't like your rate in a down economy, you'll be giving the company a discount on it (or taking a haircut on the monthly bill) or he'll be hiring your competition.

By the way, how do you reach the conclusion I'm suggesting you leave your job? The title carves you out of the target group, doesn't it?

Hey PL - What if I went to a subsidized school (Temple U)? Then, tuition won't run into the six-figure range.

PL: Some say only go to a T14 school - that it will guarantee you a high paying job and allow you to pay your loans down in short order. I don't know if the future of large firms is quite as rosy as those people do. I think there's some risk in doing that today that wasn't there a few years ago, when most of the people offering such advice formulated that conclusion.

Shopping by price is dangerous because a Temple degree will not get you a job in a huge New York firm making $160k. But it can get you a job in Philly making between $100K and $140k right out of school if you do well, and the cost of living in Philly is pretty low. The future for that town remains guarded at best, and the legal community in it is, well... Let's just say there's good reason for the term "Philadelphia Lawyer." But if the idea is to take on minimal debt while getting the most bang for your buck, Temple is a great school. They also create lawyers who actually know how to practice a bit when they get out of school, unlike so many other institutions that fixate on theoretical nonsense.

But even with Temple, if you;re only going there to escape the market and not because you know you want to be a lawyer, you're pissing away money.